Your Top-50 Prospects Requested Author Message BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-26-02 10:56 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm in the middle of putting together a bunch of top prospect lists for the annual farm team comparison, and I came to the conclusion that most of us could do a better job of compiling lists than some of these big-name media outlets. For example, The Sporting News top-100 list didn't even include Gabe Gross, Jayson Werth, Ben Broussard, Brandon Phillips or Dewon Brazelton. If those guys aren't top-100 prospects, then...well, I'd love to be in the same league as the guy who compiled that list for TSN. So I've decided to make my own Top-100 list this year, and I thought it would be fun to include as many lists as possible from those of us in the league who know our stuff (or think we do) when it comes to prospects. If you feel you're up to it, jot down your own top-20 or top-50 list and either send it to me or post it here on the board. Include amateur players as well as pros (if you feel that any amateurs are worthy.) I think it would be more fun to post all the lists here. I'll post my own list as soon as I've compiled it so that everyone can tell me what a moron I am. It'll be fun! ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shark Double-A Posted 01-27-02 11:07 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shark's Top 25 Josh Beckett - RHP Marlins Hank Blalock - 3B Rangers Mark Prior - RHP Cubs Carlos Pena - 1B/OF Rangers Nick Johnson - 1B Yankees Wilson Betemit - SS Braves Mark Teixeira - 3B Rangers Sean Burroughs - 3B Padres Joe Borchard - OF White Sox Dennis Tankersley - RHP Padres Drew Henson - 3B Yankees Nick Neugebauer - RHP Brewers Jon Rauch - RHP White Sox Juan Cruz - RHP Cubs Austin Kearns - OF Reds Josh Hamilton - OF Devil Rays Ryan Anderson - LHP Mariners (*must prove he is healthy) Hee Seop Choi - 1B Cubs Corwin Malone - LHP White Sox Jerome Williams - RHP Giants Joe Mauer - C Twins Carlos Hernandez - LHP Astros Kenny Baugh - RHP Tigers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SeaCats Double-A Posted 01-27-02 11:38 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Hank Blalock 2. Sean Burroughs 3. Josh Beckett 4. Carlos Pena 5. Wilson Betemit 6. Dennis Tankersley 7. Mark Prior 8. Mark Texeira 9. Nick Johnson 10. Mike Cuddyer 11. Austin Kearns 12. Juan Cruz 13. Angel Berroa 14. Jacob Peavy 15. Kelly Johnson 16. Hee Seop Choi 17. Adrian Gonzalez 18. Brandon Claussen 19. Gabe Gross 20. Boof Bonser ----------------------------- You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blazers Low-A Posted 01-27-02 01:30 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about ...... The 2003 - 2007 New Milford Blazers Cresse - CA Burroughs - 3B Cuddyer - OF Kearns - OF Erik Almonte -SS Aven - OF Soriano - 2B Pattersn - OF Brown - OF Ward - OF/1B Sabathia Phillips Goosling Myette ----------------------------- If you can't stand the heat, call a fireman! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-28-02 11:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As promised, here's my list (as if anyone cares...) 1. Blalock 2. Teixeira 3. Burroughs 4. Beckett 5. Prior 6. C.Pena 7. Kotchman 8. A.Gonzalez 9. N.Johnson 10. J.Hamilton 11. K.Johnson 12. Betemit 13. Tankersley 14. B.Brownlie 15. Kearns 16. Choi 17. B.Hill 18. Burke 19. Peavy 20. R.Anderson 21. J.Cruz 22. Snelling 23. Gross 24. Cuddyer 25. Claussen 26. Brazelton 27. Nady 28. A.Johnson 29. J.F. Griffin 30. R.Soriano 31. Mauer 32. C.F.Chen 33. J.Williams 34. Borchard 35. Rauch 36. B.Phillips 37. Baugh 38. Morneau 39. Harvey 40. Ben Broussard 41. Restovich 42. Werth 43. Sizemore 44. J.Francis 45. Bonser 46. Spooneybarger 47. Tsao 48. Cust 49. Gautreau 50. Heilman ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shark Double-A Posted 01-29-02 06:25 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Insulted. Corwin Malone not in your Top 50 (Chi LH SP). Top Chi pitching propsect in many mags) ----------------------------- Orioles fan. Please shoot me now! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shark Double-A Posted 01-29-02 06:26 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drew Henson doesn't make the Commish's Top 50? WOW!!!!!!!!....and he is a Yankee fan!!!!!! ----------------------------- Orioles fan. Please shoot me now! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shark Double-A Posted 01-29-02 06:28 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I love how all the commish's "traded" prospects are really high on his list almost to justify trading them for what he got back ----------------------------- Orioles fan. Please shoot me now! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 08:28 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have reached a new self-serving low. Burke at 18? Brownlie in the top 15!!! (14 no less!)? Kotchman at #7 above Johnson, AGonzalez, Choi etc.??? Snelling as a Top 25 propsect? Adam Johnson at 28? JEFF FRANCIS -- a freakin' Canadian playing against second rate competition at #44??? I could go on and on. This transparent attempt to plug your own prospects, contrary to every minor league prospect evaluator on the market, is shameless...EVEN FOR YOU. If it wasn't so comical (and transparent), it would be insulting to the rest of the league. Every time I think you have reached a new low, you wind up topping yourself. I think we have found your "niche" buddy...being shameless. Congrats. [Edited by STMZoots] [Edited by STMZoots] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 08:38 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha [I am still laughing...AT WORK no less...thanks for the pick-me-up] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 09:44 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ugh...where to begin? First of all, if I didn't believe a prospect was worth of the top-50, why on earth would I have drafted him in the first place? Obviously, I think highly of these players, or I wouldn't have them on my roster. Secondly, I'll put my top-50 list against any other top-50 list. Of course, the problem is that it'll take years before I can say, "I told you so." But I'll still be here. I think I may have saved a list that I made a couple of years ago. It would interesting to compare that list with Sickels or BBA. If I have the time, I'll dig into it. Now, to address the specific problems you seemed to have with my list, here goes: Chris Burke at #18: Your hero, John Sickels, listed Burke at #36 on his top-50 list, so I don't think this is too much of a stretch. Between 18 and 36, Sickels listed Claussen, Bonser, Borchard, Werth, Broussard, Mauer, Soriano, Heaverlo, Malone, Phillips, Cabrera, Chen, Brazelton, Henson, Baugh, Mourneau and Buck. I would take Burke over any of those players without hesitation. Just out of curiosity, which one (or ones) would you take over Burke? That way, I can give you my answer as to why I prefer Burke. Brownlie at #14: He's without a doubt the #1 amateur in the country right now (at least according to every scout who's ever seen him.) So I don't think #14 is too much of a reach. He's more advanced than recent college grads Heaverlo (#26), Brazelton (#31), Baugh (#33) and Heilman (#44). And my personal preference is toward advanced college pitchers over advanced high school pitchers, which is why I ranked him ahead of Peavy, Anderson and Williams. Again, which pitchers would you rate higher than Brownlie? Kotchman at #7: I knew this one would cause the biggest ruckus, but you might remember that Sickels caused a similar ruckus a few years ago when he put a youngster by the name of Hank Blalock in his top-ten when no other publication had him in the top-50. Since he hardly has any experience as a pro, I have to go by hearsay, and everything I've heard is that this kid has the ability to rise very quickly through the minor leagues ala Eric Chavez and Sean Burroughs. As the son of a major league scout, his father had him hitting with wood since he was in Little League. I've heard several scouts say that he has more bat speed and power from the left side than they've ever seen in a high school kid. You're going to hear a lot about Kotchman this summer (assuming he's healthy, which is my only concern.) Just remember where you heard it first. (Side note: the reason why I ranked him ahead of Johnson, Gonzalez and Choi is that I asked myself whether I would trade Kotchman for any one of those guys if it was offered, and the answer was no.) Snelling at #25: Sure, and why not? He's risen one level per year, is consistently one of the youngest players in the league, and has actually improved with each year. He's not going to win any home run or stolen base titles, but he would make a great leadoff hitter. I wonder where Craig Biggio, Rusty Greer and Lenny Dykstra were ranked when they were 20 years old. We know now that they should have been in the top-25, don't you agree? Adam Johnson at #28: Again, why not? What's to argue with that? He's another advanced college pitcher with tremendous stuff, who has dominated the minor leagues after dominating the college levels for three years. I'm pretty sure that he was ranked higher than #28 last year. Are we suddenly going to toss him aside because he had a rough 25-inning cup of coffee in the big leagues? If so, then you have to toss aside 98-percent of rookie pitchers, because they all get hammered when they first arrive without the benefit of a full year at Triple-A. Again, which pitchers would you rank higher and why? Jeff Francis at #44: Okay, this was a reach. But all lists have to have a reach, don't they? Here's a 6'5" lefty that throws 91-94 consistently, strikes out a ton of batters (granted, they're Canadians), and hardly walks anyone. We won't know what he's really capable of doing until he reaches the states, but again, would I trade him for Bonser, Tsao or Heilman? No. Drew Henson (not ranked): I know I should be a fan, but I'm just not. He strikes out way too much and draws way too few walks for my taste. Then again, so did a young Mike Schmidt. He definitely has the tools to be a top prospect. I just don't think he's put it all together yet, and I'm not sure he ever will. There are plenty of toolsy high school power hitters out there who never made it to the big leagues because they couldn't tell a ball from a strike. As a Yankee fan, I hope that Hensen isn't one of them. Corwin Malone (not ranked): I'm not big on guys who can't keep the ball over the plate, and Malone has walked 142 batters in 258 minor league innings (239 of which were in A-ball.) That's just a hair below five walks per game. He is a lefty, and he did show some improvement at low-A last year, so I'm not giving up on him. I just don't think he's top-50 worthy. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SeaCats Double-A Posted 01-29-02 10:08 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, I'm not going to get into this ruckus between you and Paul...as the truth is all of us probably feel our guys are a little better than the rest. I will mention that I don't think Josh Hamilton is a top 10 prospect, and I know everyone will come out of the woodwork to pummel me for this one. But the guy has been hyped so much, that I'm expecting the second coming of A-Rod. He has done very little to justify the hype. In fact north of rookie league, he's had one above average season. He hasn't remained healthy, and when he has, he hasn't been that good. I should get to see Josh play this season, maybe I'll be able to see what everyone else does then (it happened when I saw Burroughs play, but Sean's record was a little better than Josh's as well). I think Josh is below Corey Patterson, and I think Corey is the second coming of Ruben Rivera. I don't know who has Corey and Josh in our league, but I give you permission to chant endless streams of obscenities in my direction. Now that I've said my piece, Patterson will be on his way to a HOF career, and Josh will break with the big club out of spring and win ROY honors. ----------------------------- You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 10:16 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, I am STILL laughing. Thanks again. No, I am not going to go point by point with you. EVERYONE sees this for what it is -- your shameless effort to promote your "prospects" prior to trading them for established players -- you do it EVERY year...it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone and, if it does, nothing I say here will prevent them from making the mistake of trading with you, so, all things considered...I pass. Call it charity. There are so many funny things to comment on, but one really caught my eye in particular: < advanced college pitcher with tremendous stuff, who has dominated the minor leagues after dominating the college levels for three years>> "...dominated the minor leagues??????????" You like numbers...here are a few. AAA 1-1 5.70era 23ip 19h 10bb 25k's AA 5-6 3.82era 113ip 105h 39bb 110k's Ummmmm...."dominating"??? I mean I know you get confused because your definition of "star pitcher" includes Pedro Astacio (which, btw, speaks volumes about your ability to judge "talent") but "dominating the minors?" How stupid do you think your fellow BDBL'ers are? Again, just for you... Just one small example of your pathological incapability of being honest...but that's old news now, isn't it guys? [Edited by STMZoots] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 10:42 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again...where to begin? "your shameless effort to promote your "prospects" prior to trading them for established players -- you do it EVERY year" Okay, I'll ask the obvious question: when have I ever hyped a prospect beyond what he deserves, then traded him? I always tell it like it is, Counselor. If I believe a prospect is top-shelf, I'm not going to say he's not. When I hyped Ben Davis, Pedro Astacio and Dewon Brazelton, I was being honest about how I felt. There's an easy way to prove it: I took all three of them back. If I really felt they were unworthy, I wouldn't have done so. And as I've already said, I'd gladly take back any prospect I've ever traded, because I think highly of them all. Again - if I didn't think highly of them, I wouldn't have had them on my roster. "nothing I say here will prevent them from making the mistake of trading with you" Okay, show of hands. Who among you has ever regretted any trade you've ever made with me? (Okay, put your hand down, Geisel. You're the one exception.) Now, who among you has ever regretted making a trade with the Zoots? I rest my case. "Ummmmm...."dominating"???" Yes, dominating. 2000: 12 starts, 11.9 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 at High-A 2001: 18 starts, 8.8 K/9, 3.1 BB/9 at Double-A I'd call that dominating. Sorry, but I'm not going to judge Johnson based on a four-start trial at Triple-A or a four starts in the Major Leagues. I don't have his college stats anymore, but he was even more dominating then. I don't want to give too much away about my own strategies when it comes to finding young talent, but those are the numbers you should be looking for. "I mean I know you get confused because your definition of "star pitcher" includes Pedro Astacio" I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this year. If you want to call Astacio a bum because he's pitched the past five seasons in the toughest pitcher's ballpark in baseball history, then you're either ignorant or you're dishonest. I know you're not ignorant, Counselor. "Just one small example of your pathological incapability of being honest" Puh-leeze. You know, I prefer to let my actions and my words be my defense against this charge. I defy you to find one example of anything I've said or done that can possibly be defined as being dishonest. Please don't ask me to do the same for you, Counselor. This is clearly a classic "pot and kettle" argument at best. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 10:59 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Denial, like obsession, is a dangerous, all-consuming thing my friend. And, P.S., success and honesty are not inversely proportional. Thus, just because I have been relatively successful in this league does not make me dishonest, but hey, if it helps you sleep at night to think that I have succeeded because of "dishonesty" while you have failed due to your refusal to be dishonest, knock yourself out. We all need to cling to something to get us through the day. If that's your "thing," its too bad, because this self-delusion really doesn't help you "heal," but if it lets you smile...more power to you. And hey, have a super day Mr. Honest. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 11:16 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me get this straight... You say I have a "pathological incapability of being honest", then you tell me that I have a mental disorder because I called you dishonest (which I never did.) I expressed my opinion about the top minor league players in baseball, and you conjured up some grand conspiracy theory where I hype all of my players to make it easier to trade them (as if anyone listens to my opinion about anything.) ...and you call ME obsessed?? ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 11:56 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hard to believe the same guy wrote the following two posts: At 11:16 you posted: < have a mental disorder because I called you dishonest (which I never did.) Only 34 minutes prior you posted: < bum because he's pitched the past five seasons in the toughest pitcher's ballpark in baseball history, then you're either ignorant or you're dishonest. I know you're not ignorant, Counselor.>> You're quotes there buddy. See, you can't even tell the truth about something you posted a half hour ago. How sad. I'd like to blame old age, but your not that old chief. [Edited by STMZoots] [Edited by STMZoots] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 01:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, there's a pretty big difference between saying you were being dishonest about one particular issue (in this case, your self-denial about Astacio), and saying you are generally a dishonest person (which is what you accused me of being.) But good attempt, nonetheless, Counselor. If I were on a jury, and I were a particularly gullible person who is easily swayed by misdirection and name-calling, I probably would have fallen for that one. But then, I don't think I'd pass through one of your jury selections. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FireAnt High-A Posted 01-29-02 01:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know what is scary?? I could probably post a random topic on the board and within 5 post have Mike and Paul arguing with each other. ----------------------------- Challenges: The Greater the difficulty the greater the glory. Cicero Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 01:33 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Been there, done that, Gene. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 02:17 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YOu make a valid point -- hard to believe, but I am feeling generous. You are not "pathologically incapable of telling the truth" GENERALLY...only when it has to do with ME, my team, my trades, my players, my prospects and anything else that is even tangentially related to the Stamford Zoots. My original statement was, in fact, too broad. There, hope that makes you feel better. I know I feel MUCH better now that we have cleared this up. BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 02:50 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to keep this going all day (though it has been fun), but I'm still a little confused. You spent a good portion of the day picking apart MY prospects and MY opinions of MY own team, yet somehow this has led to you accusing me of having a bias against YOU and YOUR team. I'm at a loss here, Counselor. Where I went to school, two and two added up to four. I know you went to the same school system, so I can't figure out how we arrived at different answers. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason" STMZoots Double-A Posted 01-29-02 03:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gosh there Mikey-boy, its been a tough day at work and I am getting sloppy. Please accept my apologies again. I forgot that I have to speak slowly since that head trauma of yours (again, I am just assuming it is a brain trauma that was responsible for your Top 50 list -- I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt) In addition, to being dishonest about "all things Stamford" you are also quite (shall we say) disingenuous about YOUR team, your prospects and "all things Salem." So, let's see if we can sum it up: (1) Mike is a nice, honest boy generally. (2) Mike is pathological liar about Stamford Zoots and its owner (3) Mike engages in excessive, transparent "pumping" of his own players, including farm guys -- not a "fault" per se, just an obvious observation, and one that is pretty common among ML GM's and fantasy GM's across the board. So, yes, this started with your ridiculous list and me calling you on it -- someone has to. As usual this turned into a mini-pissing match that somehow turns back to my team, my trades etc. Its a pretty standard procedure. Just check Page 15 of the Manual -- its right there. There, I think that sums it up. I can't "dumb it down" more than that. Read it slowly...but, come on, stop moving your lips...its embarrassing. BDBLcommish Head Honcho Posted 01-29-02 03:32 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, fair enough. I definitely agree with point #1, but I'm at a loss to explain points two and three, since: a) I've never lied about the Zoots or their owner, and b) I don't artificially inflate my players' values. But we're all entitled to our own opinions, Counselor. And with that, I humbly exit, stage left, and leave the twin spotlights to you and your inner demons. To the league, I hope that you have enjoyed today's performance. Consider it our gift to you in celebration of Opening Day. Just the first of many performances you'll see this season, I promise, so make sure to tune in often. ----------------------------- "The Voice of Reason"