Obi-Wan Kenobi Geisel-like Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 1 Posted: 12 Jun 2004 07:44 am Post subject: Disturbance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I feel a terrible, terrible disturbance in the force. Horrible things will happen in the not so distant future. I see it........ _________________ May the force be with you Back to top Comic Book Shop Guy Rookie Joined: 02 Oct 2003 Posts: 16 Posted: 12 Jun 2004 08:10 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scariest ... post ... EVER! Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 09:14 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rumors are true. I'll let the people that made this deal announce it themselves, but suffice it to say, it is yet another trade that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for one of the teams involved. I suspect that a little of this was going on in one of those two households last night. Back to top Ridgebacks Major League Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 1429 Posted: 12 Jun 2004 09:41 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi guys! I was just surfing the web and I thought I'd check in. This is a pretty funny thread. Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 10:13 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Um...are you going to announce your trade? I'm anxious to begin picking it apart. Back to top Ridgebacks Major League Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 1429 Posted: 12 Jun 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ugh. I was going to wait until I had some time to do a write-up but I'll just throw it out there. Allentown sends Merkin Valdez, Chad Gaudin, Scott Schoeneweis, and Ben Grieve to Bear County for Sammy Sosa, Rod Beck, Sterling Hitchcock, Rick Reed, and Fred McGriff. With the teams in the Eck league loading up like they are, Allentown felt the need to add one more power bat to their lineup. Hopefully this will give Barry Bonds some protection in the lineup. Back to top Mike S./Rocks Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1517 Location: Cleveland Posted: 12 Jun 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They should now change their name to Bare Country. Old Mother Hubbard had more left in her cupboard! All that ALONE for Sosa would probably still make me scratch my head but I'd say, OK, you got some serviceable players and a couple long-term shots, I understand. I am just glad Allentown's already got their division clinched thanks to a 12-game lead. I'll take care of them in the playoffs with or without this trade. _________________ We are the Cleveland Rocks, and we approved this message. Back to top CyberSox Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1131 Location: San Jose, CA Posted: 12 Jun 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought I was stealing from Bear Country with the Washburn-Nix deal... _________________ Silicon Valley CyberSox Worst to First in '05! Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 01:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll echo Steinny's statement by saying that if Allentown traded all that crap for Sosa ALONE, it would have been a STEAL for Allentown. The fact that Tom -- once again -- got several valuable "throw-ins" ON TOP OF Sosa makes this trade an absolute joke. I can't figure out how ANY of the players "sacrificed" by Allentown in this trade are going to help Bear Country now, next year or any year in the future. Schoeneweis is average at best, but he carries a $3.5m salary next year. Ben Grieve? He may have been useful back in 1998, but what has he done in the past four or five years? He's so awful, the Devil Rays don't even want him! And speaking of the D-Rays, what's the appeal of having Chad Gaudin on your roster? I fine middle reliever, but I can name several middle relievers on the free agent market right now that are better than him. The ONLY potential impact player the Jamboree acquired in this deal is Valdez, and he's only thrown 15 innings this year. Again, I can name several free agent farm players available right now that I'd take over Valdez. I don't know about the rest of you, but I offered more for Sosa than what has been acquired here. Hell, I offered more for ROD BECK than what the Jamboree got in this trade. I know that no matter how many times I say this, it goes in one ear and out the other, but I can't help saying it again. Please let me know when you're all tired of seeing the Zoots and Ridgebacks in the World Series. You all are practically bending over backwards each and every year to ensure that at least one of those two teams is represented in the Fall Classic. I just don't understand the logic behind trades like this. Back to top Qatari_Bob High-A Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 122 Location: Al Udeid AB, Qatar Posted: 12 Jun 2004 02:25 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I inquired about Sosa and was told "Brown, Conteras and Vargas?" Yikes......I replied I couldn't move my ACE, but could move Vargas. Never heard a peep afterwards. I figured he was working a better trade. I like Merkin, but I do think Bear County caught the short end on this one. Allentown just got a lot scarier. Bob _________________ Missing the BDBL from afar Really, really, really afar !! Back to top Jim Doyle High-A Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 212 Location: Manchester NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 03:01 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I BELIEVE IN THE FREE MARKET MYSELF BUT THIS TRADE MAY REQUIRE LEGUE INTERVENTION.... THIS REMINDS ME WHEN CHARLIE FINLEY SOLD OFF ALL OF THE A'S IN A FIRE SALE AND THE MBL COMMISSIONER HAD TO STEP IN... ON THE OTHER HAND, I TRADED CHIPPER JONES FOR RYAN DEMPSTER SO WHAT DO I KNOW... Back to top Sphinx High-A Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 141 Location: Naperville, IL Posted: 12 Jun 2004 03:05 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very nice trade Tom. I see now why we couldn't come to an agreement on Bagwell as you were working a much better deal for Slammin' Sammy. All that's left to decide this season is who's going to play (lose to?) Allentown in the BDBL Series... _________________ Great Lakes Back to top Ridgebacks Major League Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 1429 Posted: 12 Jun 2004 04:07 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: I am just glad Allentown's already got their division clinched thanks to a 12-game lead. I'll take care of them in the playoffs with or without this trade. How many wildcard teams are we allowing in the playoffs this year from each league???? Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 06:30 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have to give credit where credit's due, so here goes: at least Tom isn't denying that he made out like a bandit here. In this case, I think silence is the wisest response, and Tom is certainly proving to be a wise man. Still, it would be nice to see a team EARN a BDBL championship one of these years instead of having it handed to them on a silver platter. Back to top novamustangs Triple-A Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 779 Location: Davidson, NC Posted: 12 Jun 2004 08:22 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, isn't making trades that help your team a part of EARNING a championship? Do you want each team to not make any trades during the season? Whatever Tom (or anyone) does to get others to make trades like this (or any trades) is part of being a GM in this league and is part of EARNING a championship. I believe that there is no foul play here in this league (your viewpoints on Paul and Billy/Phil aside) and I believe that nothing was done here that would cause one to say Tom (or anyone) is not EARNING a championship. Listen, I understand the frustration of you and some other owners who feel like they do a great job putting their teams together, making trades and managing games only to fall short of the ultimate prize. But I also think a bit of your feelings (and the feelings of others) is jealousy. Heck, I'm not even in the hunt and I'm jealous that Tom was able to get Sosa to join Bonds. Wouldn't we all want that for our teams? But Tom was a good enough GM, negotiator, prognosticator or whatever to find an owner who wanted what he was offering and who had what he wanted. That shouldn't cause you (or anyone) to imply that he's not EARNING a championship he hasn't even won yet for he IS EARNING whatever outcome his team will experience come November, just like every other owner in this league. bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 12 Jun 2004 10:15 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony, I would prefer to crown a champion that has demonstrated the greatest baseball knowledge over the past year. Instead, all we seem to do every year is reward the guy that has demonstrated the best ability to negotiate lopsided trades. There is a difference. One requires hard work, intelligent decision-making and sacrifice. The other simply requires a gullible and/or ignorant person at the other end of the trading table. Now, your argument is that it takes some sort of skill to rip someone off, and that's a legitimate argument. But if that skill exists, it has nothing to do with baseball. The question you have to ask yourself is: how much skill is involved in negotiating a lopsided trade? I mean, how much do you need to know about baseball to agree to a trade where you get an impact player or two without sacrificing one player that you might possibly miss down the road? I could land a plane in the middle of Aboriginal Australia right now, stop the first person I see, and ask that person whether he would trade a pile of dog crap for Sammy Sosa (with three other impact players thrown in "just to make it even"), and I guarantee his response would be, "Are you shittin' me? Of course! What fool wouldn't?" Every championship that has ever been won in this league so far has involved one severely lopsided mid-season trade, where a superstar impact player has gone to the eventual champ in exchange for essentially nothing. This gets really old after a while. So forgive me if I seem a little agitated that it has happened yet again. When you put as much effort into your team as I do, and you try as hard as I do to make fair trades that benefit both teams equally, it gets very frustrating to see all that hard work unraveled because an impact player falls into somebody's lap, either by accident or "skillful" negotiation. Some day, when your team is in the heat of a pennant race, and your main competition has just traded a pile of worthless dog crap for Sammy Sosa, you'll understand how I feel. Back to top BC_Jamboree High-A Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 249 Posted: 13 Jun 2004 01:09 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, so I guess you want my side of this trade: Rick Reed -- We can all agree that he is worthless. In 65 innings for the Jamboree, 6.20 ERA, 1-7 record Fred McGriff -- Where is he going to make an impact? Pr/Pr/Pr, and Pr fielder. Can't hit lefties.....365 OBP against righties, but so did Brian Duabach, who was a FA....minimal, if any, impact for 2005; Fred will be lucky to get 200 at-bats... Sterling Hitchcock: 6.70 ERA in 44 innings for the Jamboree...he is NOT getting lefties out.....worthless in 2005 due to a ribcage stress fracture So, can't you all agree that the throw-ins are crap? So now its a 4-2 player trade!: Rod Beck: Only 23 BDBL innings left in 2004....but a good guy for Allentown in the playoffs.... As for 2005, there are still plenty of relievers to be drafted (so said so yourself, Mike)... only thrown 5 innings in 2004 MLB (so he's on pace for another 35 inning season) Sammy Sosa: Not super against righties....strikes out a lot....although I do admit he's been the Jamboree's best clutch hitter...I (and now Allentown) will lose him after this year Merkin Valdez: Stud prospect. How many studs do the Jamboree have? Not very many....Now we have at least 1. Ben Grieve: High OBP vs. righties (.390) which is a BCJ staple.... He should get 300 at-bats for RF platoon cheaply. Scott Schoeneweis: Gives BCJ a starter for next year at 3.5 mil. We only have two lined up (Thomson, Nomo)... We can now afford to draft 1 or 2 more Chad Gaudin: Young, talented reliver or starter for long term. I don't think this trade is as bad as you think! Just because some big names went one direction doesn't mean that this won't help my team next year and beyond. As for Bob's remarks, I wasn't wanting all 3 of those pitchers....Just asking if they were available. And I only heard back from him Friday after I replied to his inquiry on Thursday. In addition, this trade originally included Mark Mulder being sent to the Jamboree and Randy Wolf being sent to Allentown. My withdrawl of Rod Beck from that equation quashed that deal. Also, other trade talks involving Washburn and Wolf went unanswered and so the need to make a deal before the deadline might have prevented further discussion. Finally, Mike, you were right in that I was drunk Came home from a wedding Friday night after 6 glasses of wine and that's when I approved the trade (although I did approve it earlier in the day while sober ). The fact that I was dealing with Allentown had nothing to do with it. I had heavy talks with Shark too. I don't think we should not deal with the Allentown's and Stamford's of the world just because they constantly find themselves in the world series. If you are comfortable with a trade, you go for it. Oh, and if anyone is still interested, Wolf is still available. _________________ When all is said and done, more is said than done. Back to top Ridgebacks Major League Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 1429 Posted: 13 Jun 2004 05:59 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You guys kill me. First of all, what defines a "lopsided trade"? Is it any trade that Mike Glander doesn't like? The greatest part about this league is the fact that we all have our OWN opinions about player value and player evaluation. If we were all working off the same "sheet", it would make for a pretty damn boring league. Second. Every year I sit around and watch teams load up with platoon freaks. I read all the "looking for a left handed second baseman who can hit righties" posts and never say a word. For the past few seasons, I've gone into the playoffs with Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, and Roy Oswalt in my rotation and I still find myself sweating losers like Greg Colbrunn, Bobby Kielty, Michael Tucker, etc. What I'm getting at is this. I get the impression from talking to some owners that when it comes to trading prospects or other future considerations for big-time players (like Sosa, Bagwell, etc), people get gun-shy. They start thinking, "Geez, why should I trade my top prospect for Sosa when I could get for less than that?" As Matt said, my original offer included Mulder and Baldelli on my side and Wolf on his side. However, Matt said that he had another deal pretty much worked out for Sosa and rejected my offer. So what happened there? I'd love to hear the story of how that original Sosa deal fell apart. Last edited by Ridgebacks on 13 Jun 2004 09:16 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 13 Jun 2004 08:24 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: In addition, this trade originally included Mark Mulder being sent to the Jamboree and Randy Wolf being sent to Allentown. My withdrawl of Rod Beck from that equation quashed that deal. Now THAT would have been an AWESOME trade for the Jamboree! Quote: I don't think we should not deal with the Allentown's and Stamford's of the world just because they constantly find themselves in the world series. I never said people shouldn't trade with them. I said people shouldn't hand them an invitation to the World Series every year. If you're going to trade with them, especially knowing their trading history, you should make sure you're getting a fair deal. (Or better yet, make them pay MORE than what you'd ask for from another team, just because they've been to The Show often enough already.) Quote: First of all, what defines a "lopsided trade"? Is it any trade that Mike Glander doesn't like? A lopsided trade, Tom, is one where you give up far less than what you get. FIVE other people besides myself have said this trade is lopsided in your favor. Why single me out? It seems to me the general consensus in the "BDBL media" is that you made out like a bandit on this deal. Congratulations. Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 13 Jun 2004 08:34 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The other thing I don't understand about this trade, from Bear Country's perspective, is that right now, they are tied for 14th in the league in wins. That puts them right on the bubble for the Rule 7.16 penalty. One more loss, and we're talking a $1 million penalty in next year's draft. So, we've got one team in the league that won't trade me their #5 outfielder because he's afraid of crossing that Rule 7.16 threshold, and we've got another that would gladly pay $1 million to add Merkin Valdez to his roster. I can't tell whether or not that new rule of ours is working. Can you? Back to top FireAnts Major League Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 1071 Location: McDonough, GA Posted: 13 Jun 2004 09:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show this in my "Inbox" today: SF M.Valdez (W,2-0) 5.0 5 2 1 0 7 1.76 - 19/1 K/BB in 15.1 IP seems like a pretty good prospect. Back to top Shark Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1520 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posted: 13 Jun 2004 09:54 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I subscribe to BaseballHQ.com. Their writeup of Valdez from pre-season: Quote: Strengths: 88-96 MPH two-seam fastball and 84-87 MPH slider. Command. Arm action. Aggressiveness. Projectability Weaknesses: Deception of 82-84 MPH sinking change-up. Repeating high ¾ delivery. Need to get stronger Comments: He led the SAL with 166 strikeouts, flashing an electric fastball and showing pinpoint command. With his fluid arm action, he is able to get impressive movement to all of his pitches, and improved the consistency of both his complimentary pitches in 2003. He has some mechanical issues, such as not repeating his delivery and not using his legs to drive to the plate, but is making grounds to improve. He is very projectable in terms of velocity and is shaping-up into a dominant-type pitcher. Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 13 Jun 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's up with all the scouting reports on Valdez all of a sudden? Has anyone said he's not a good prospect? He was a great prospect before hurting his shoulder and missing a month. It looks like he's healthy, though, so he's still a good prospect. Is one good pitching prospect (and a few nondescript throw-ins) really the going rate for Sosa, Beck, Hitchcock and McGriff? If so, I'll be trading Edwin Jackson tomorrow. Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 28 Jun 2004 03:51 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This little news item was somehow missed during the chaos of BDBL Weekend: Quote: White Sox placed LHP Scott Schoeneweis on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to June 22, with left elbow inflammation. This may explain his recent mediocrity, but it's more likely that he just isn't very good. Schoeneweis will probably aim to return right after the All-Star break. Back to top Undertakers Triple-A Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 842 Location: Los Altos, CA Posted: 05 Aug 2004 12:47 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No one has mentioned it, but the Giants promoted Valdez to the majors the other day. He has only pitched to 2 batters, but that is quite a quick rise. Back to top Shark Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1520 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posted: 05 Aug 2004 03:41 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just wait till September, Scott Kazmir will get a look-see from TB. Freakin' 20 years old. He will ALWAYS bother me. Back to top bigdaddy Site Admin Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 5142 Location: Salem, NH Posted: 05 Aug 2004 03:48 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You had Scott Kazmir, Sharky? I didn't know that. Regarding Merkin, he has FAR less value as a reliever than he does as a starter. Just another reason why trading a Sammy Sosa-like player for a minor league pitcher is rarely a good idea. Back to top Mike S./Rocks Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1517 Location: Cleveland Posted: 05 Aug 2004 06:00 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Merkin helped the Reds score 10 runs in one inning today. And Scott Schoeneweis gave up nine runs in 1.1 IP all by himself yesterday to raise his ERA to 5.56. _________________ We are the Cleveland Rocks, and we approved this message. Back to top Shark Major League Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 1520 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posted: 05 Aug 2004 06:58 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bigdaddy wrote: You had Scott Kazmir, Sharky? I didn't know that. Did I officailly have him? NO. That was the transaction period when I got the transactions in late and you didn't accept them. I would have had him before Manchester claimed him. Back to top BC_Jamboree High-A Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 249 Posted: 06 Aug 2004 12:09 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Mike S! First you praise the Dodgers and then you gotta point out Schoenweis and Valdez's performances! You are not my favorite person right now! _________________ When all is said and done, more is said than done.