November 25, 2002

Glander Chats with Roy Firestone

SALEM, NH - Salem Cowtippers manager Mike Glander sat down once again for his
annual heart-to-heart with "Up Close" host Roy Firestone.  Below is a transcript
from that interview.

ROY FIRESTONE: "Here we are again."

MIKE GLANDER: "Yes.  It's hard to believe it's been a year."

RF: "You look considerably less...um...insane with hatred this time."

MG: "Well, Roy, unlike last year, I feel we gave it our best shot this year.  We
clearly didn't show up in 2001, but this year's team was special.  They actually
came to play, and I'm grateful to them for that."

RF: "Unlike most years, we actually have three series to talk about, so let's go
over them one at a time.  We'll start with the Division Series against the Stamford
Zoots.  Obviously, that series had to mean a lot to you, given your post-season
history against that team.  What were your thoughts heading into that series?"

MG: "Emotionally, I felt we had no chance whatsoever to win that series. On 
paper, though - logically - I thought we had a very good chance of winning that
series.  I felt we had the better team offensively and defensively, and unlike
previous years, we matched up with the Zoots very, very well."

RF: "That was by design, was it not?"

MG: "Yes, it was.  We determined very early that the Zoots would be playing in 
the post-season, and we knew that the road to the BDBL World Series would have to
go through Stamford - as it always seems to do.  So we went out and got a lot of
players that we felt matched up against the Zoots specifically."

RF: "For example...?"

MG: "Well, two of those players were John Thomson and Corey Bailey.  It was 
actually quite rewarding for me when I heard that (Stamford manager Paul) Mara-
zita didn't even realize Bailey was on my roster.  I liked that.  In fact, I 
purposely left both Thomson and Bailey off the original, unofficial post-season 
roster that I sent out because I didn't want to tip my strategy - even though 
I'm not sure it would have helped them if I did."

RF: "And what was that strategy?"

MG: "Well, as you know, Roy, the Zoots like to employ a lot of part-time players
in the post-season with heavy platoon splits.  A great way to counter-balance 
that strategy is to load up on pitchers like Thomson and Bailey, who are right-
handed, but get left-handers out better than they do righties.  Thomson actually 
led the league in batting average and OBP against lefties, and Bailey was out-
standing in that regard.  We also traded for Brad Penny and Rolando Arrojo for
the same reason."

RF: "Okay, so Game One, Penny has his worst game of the year.  What are you 
thinking?"

MG: "Here we go again."

RF: "Mike Mussina, Part Two?"

MG: "Exactly.  The guy pitches phenomenally during the year - I think he beat
Stamford all three times he faced them - yet he gets hammered in the post-season.
Story of the Salem Cowtippers."

RF: "Yet miraculously, Stamford's ace, Mark Buehrle, pitches almost as poorly."

MG: "Yes, that was a miracle.  A true blessing in disguise.  We were somehow able
to keep pace with them, kept the game close, then they committed a couple of 
timely errors in the ninth and we walked away with our first post-season win
against Stamford since 1999."

RF: "In Game Two, you shocked a lot of us in the press - especially the Stamford
press - by giving Rolando Arrojo the ball instead of Mike Mussina.  Care to 
explain?"

MG: "Well, since we had committed to using Thomson, and since Thomson was limited
to only five innings per league rules, we couldn't start Arrojo and Thomson back-
to-back, since Arrojo is usually only good for five or six innings himself.  The
bullpen would have been spent by Game Four.  So we spread them out, allowing our
pen to rest, and giving us a match-up in Game Three that we liked."

RF: "Which, of course, didn't work out too well."

MG: "No, not really.  That damn Kevin Brown really has done a number on us through
the years.  Even after missing half a season due to injury, the old man was still 
on his game.  Watching him limp out to the mound in his walker made me sad, but 
it was actually good to see him give his team one final - though brief - moment of 
victory."

RF: "Game Four comes, and now it's time for Thomson."

MG: "Our secret weapon, yes.  My only regret is that Thomson didn't pitch four 
more innings at the big league level.  Had he done so, he might have been our Game
One starter.  He was really awesome for us all season, and well worth the $3 
million we gave him at the draft.  I remember debating about that pick at the time.
Fortunately, we had the pick right before Stamford, and nabbed him when we did.
Marazita has told me that he would've taken Thomson with that next pick had we not
done so."

RF: "Sometimes, it's the little things that make all the difference.  One little
twist of fate here or there and history is rewritten a completely different way."

MG: "Yes, just imagine if Rafael Palmeiro hadn't hit that home run off Greg Maddux
in Game Five of the '99 OLDS."

RF: "You really need to get over that, you know?"

MG: "I know.  Let's move on."

RF: "So, Thomson pitches five brilliant innings in Game Four, and your bullpen 
continues to pitch brilliantly.  You shut down the Zoots offense and head into 
Game Six ahead three games to one.  Confident at that point?"

MG: "You know me better than that, Roy.  At that point, I'm thinking, is Stamford
going to do it yet again, putting together that late-series winning streak to 
advance to the next round?"

RF: "But you go into the ninth inning of that final game tied 3-3, then score
seven runs off the Stamford relievers to win by a comfortable margin."

MG: "Yes, that Zoots bullpen finally cracked under pressure.  I'd been waiting for
that to happen for four years.  Those guys have been playing over their heads for
far too long.  It's good to see their luck finally ran out."

RF: "You mean the Stamford bullpen, right?"

MG: "Uh...yeah, them, too."

RF: "Was there a big celebration in the Salem clubhouse?"

MG: "I wouldn't call it a big celebration.  We opened up a few bottles of Sammy,
reviewed all the box scores and just kind of soaked in the moment.  It was nice.
We still had a big job ahead of us, so there wasn't any real cause for a big
celebration at that point.  Just another stepping stone to the Series."

RF: "Now, after a long break, you head to Los Altos.  You've never had any luck
against that team historically.  What was your mindset heading into that series?"

MG: "Again, we felt we had the better team and the better match-ups on paper.
But emotionally, we knew it all depended on whether or not our players would show
up to play, and that's always been a problem for us in the post-season."

RF: "For the first two games, at least, history certainly seemed to be repeating
itself."

MG: "That's for sure.  That first game, I was shocked that we were able to score
a run off the Los Altos bullpen - especially that Moreno fella.  But then, it was
time for our bullpen to slam the door with the one run lead in the ninth and they
just didn't get it done.  They were so great in the Division Series, but for some
reason, they just fell apart in the LCS."

RF: "Two outs in the ninth.  One out away from getting the win, and Craig Wilson
throws the ball into center field trying to nab Larry Walker."

MG: "Don't remind me, Roy."

RF: "I have to ask...why was Wilson still in the game?"

MG: "Plain and simple, my focus on the game at that point was on getting the 
batter/pitcher match-ups I wanted.  The last thing on my mind was defensive
replacements.  I sort of look to my bench coach to help me out in that situation,
but unfortunately, Ozzie Smith got lost before the game.  Apparently, he was 
touring some mystery fun house in Springfield and hasn't been seen since."

RF: "Okay, so Walker makes it to third, then scores on a hit by Bagwell.  Now...
I have to ask...why was Wilson still in the game at that point?"

MG: "Well, now I'm thinking offense.  The game is tied, and I've got Wilson due
to bat second the next inning.  I frankly didn't care whether or not Bagwell stole
second - which he did, rather too easily I might add - as it would then open up 
first and allow me to pitch around Kevin Millar.  Of course, pitching around him 
didn't do much good, as he came through with the game-winner off Chad Fox."

RF: "Onto Game Two.  You've mounted a stirring comeback against the Los Altos
bullpen and managed to tie the game.  But in the eighth inning, you bring in Norm
Charlton to face the bottom-third of the Los Altos lineup.  Why?"

MG: "Craig Biggio was due to bat second that inning.  Craig can't hit lefties to
save his life.  We knew if we brought in Normie to pitch to Biggio, Jeff would
counter with a righty off the bench and gladly replace Biggio's poor glove in the
field.  So we brought in Norm to face Wooten, which meant that we could then 
counter with a righty pitcher if Jeff replaced Biggio."

RF: "Of course, Los Altos stuck with Biggio, and he blooped a base hit off 
Charlton."

MG: "You know, I can only do so much as a manager.  I've said it before and I'll
say it again.  I put my guys in the best position to win.  What they do with it
from that point on is up to them.  There's only so much I can control."

RF: "You're not finger-pointing are you?  It sounds like you're finger-pointing."

MG: "Back off, Roy."

RF: "Okay, so now Biggio's on first and Los Altos brings in Shawon Dunston to 
pinch hit.  Dunston has killed lefties all year.  Why on earth do you stick with 
Charlton?"

MG: "Basically, because I'm looking too far ahead.  On deck was Danny Bautista,
who hits lefties about as well as I do.  With one out, I'm thinking that Charlton
could get out of that inning if he could just get by Dunston, and frankly, I wasn't
all that scared of Dunston.  The guy's gotta be close to my father's age, for 
crying out loud.  Besides that, Normie can handle righties pretty well, and at that 
point in the game, our bullpen was spent.  I'd already used Fox, Choate and 
Weathers, and I had to save Karsay in case the game went extra innings, and it 
certainly seemed to be heading that way at that time.  It didn't make sense to waste 
another pitcher at that point."

RF: "But Dunston hits a two-run homer off Charlton and Salem is suddenly down
two games to none.  Panic time?"

MG: "Oddly enough, no.  I still felt confident that we could come back.  We had
both of those first two games won, so I knew we were close.  It was just a matter
of getting the right hit or the right pitch at the right time and getting that 
first win under our belts."

RF: "Which you did in Game Three."

MG: "Thanks to Brad Penny, yes."

RF: "You then tied the series in Game Four, with Thomson pitching, then won 
an extra-innings game in Game Five to pull ahead in the series.  Now, you 
said you had a lot of confidence going into this series, yet these are 
some very tight games."

MG: "Yes, they were, and we expected them to be tight.  The Undertakers 
have always played us tough, and we knew we were in for a real battle.  
Before the series began, I told Jeff the entire fate of our series rested
upon which one of us got the one clutch hits we needed.  In Game Five, 
Robin Ventura came through with a very clutch hit off Juan Moreno to win 
the game in the 11th."

RF: "You said that you were thinking of going with Jose Canseco in that 
situation.  Canseco had an OPS over 900 against lefties in the big 
leagues, and Moreno held lefties to 190 OPS in the BDBL this year.  Why 
go with Ventura?"

MG: "I just felt that Robin was more likely to make contact in that 
situation.  He hits lefties pretty well, and he's been a clutch hitter 
all year for us.  It was just a hunch, and it turned out to be a good 
one."

RF: "You had a chance to put Los Altos away in Game Six, as Brad Penny 
was ready to go.  But you stuck with Rolando Arrojo.  Why?"

MG: "I considered starting Penny, but decided to stick with my original 
game plan.  As it turned out, if I had started Penny and won, I wouldn't 
have had that problem in Game Two of the World Series when Arrojo wasn't 
ready to go.  But at that point, I'm not looking ahead to the World 
Series.  I'm just trying to win the series at hand.  I liked the match-
up of Penny vs. Park in Game Seven a lot more than Arrojo vs. Park."

RF: "Arrojo loses, and you move on to Game Seven.  You take a scoreless 
tie into the seventh inning and Sosa hits a home run off Chan Ho Park to 
put you in the lead.  What's going through your mind at that point?"

MG: "I'm just trying to figure out how my bullpen is going to blow it  
this time."

RF: "The same inning that Sosa homers, Los Altos intentionally walks the 
bases full with Penny due to hit and one out.  You left him in to hit for
himself, even though you had plenty of options on the bench.  Again - why?"

MG: "Two reasons.  First, I liked the way Penny was pitching.  He'd only 
thrown about 68 pitches at that point and had more than enough left in 
him to throw another inning or two.  Secondly, I didn't trust my bullpen 
to hold that 1-0 lead."

RF: "You tried to bunt a run home, and Penny popped up into a rally-
ending double play.  I can tell by that pained expression on your face 
that that was a big play."

MG: "All I wanted to do was avoid a double play.  I didn't want Penny to 
swing the bat, and I couldn't use the take sign on an 0-2 count, so I 
told him to bunt, hoping he'd either miss it or force a play at the 
plate."

RF: "After that, Penny tossed another scoreless inning, and the 'Tippers 
scored six insurance runs in the eighth.  End of series.  Now you've got 
to face the Allentown Ridgebacks - the most feared team in the BDBL.  The
polls say you have no shot whatsoever of winning the series.  How do you 
prepare for such a team?"

MG: "Allentown was a very tough team to scout, because their weaknesses 
are easily-correctable and their strengths are unavoidable.  When you 
pitch to that lineup, you have to pray that their #3 or #8 hitter makes 
the final out of every inning.  If they don't, you're going to be facing 
Martinez, Bonds or Ramirez with runners on base.  If those three are 
allowed to swing freely with runners on base, you may as well pack up 
and go home.  And that pitching staff...let's just say I agreed with the 
polls."

RF: "Prior to that series, there was some controversy about whether some 
players - you call them 'short-usage superstars' - would be starting in 
this series.  Care to comment on that?"

MG: "The one guy on the Allentown roster I feared more than anyone - more
than Bonds, Ramirez or any of those guys - was Russ Johnson.  Johnson put
up some insane numbers against righties this year, and I had no one on my 
staff who matched up well against him.  The key to the series was the #1 
and #2 batters in the Allentown lineup.  Those are very key outs, given the 
heart of that lineup.  If those guys get on base, you lose, simple as that.  
So I started a little P.R. campaign to try to shame Tom (DiStefano, Allen-
town's manager) into sitting Johnson.  I tried to get him to sit Tyler 
Houston as well, because he scared me almost as much as Johnson, but when 
that didn't work, I went after Johnson only.  I offered to sit Craig Wilson, 
which I thought would have been a good incentive for him, given the number of 
home runs his pitchers have allowed to right-handed batters this year, but
Tom didn't bite.  As it turned out, Johnson and Houston played a huge role in 
Allentown's ultimate victory."

RF: "Though no one gave you a chance to win this series, you took a two 
games to none lead.  How did that happen?"

MG: "Just pure, unadulterated luck, Roy.  Mussina was hammered in Game 
One, but we managed to beat up Johnson just as badly.  Our bullpen walked 
home the tying run in the eighth, but we managed to win it in the bottom 
of the ninth on back-to-back doubles by Sosa and Helton.  In many ways, 
that game was very similar to Game One of the OLDS."

RF: "Game Two, you came to the ballpark that morning and learned you had 
no starting pitcher."

MG: "Yes, Rolando wasn't feeling up to par, which was a bit of a shocker."

RF: "You've been criticized for not bringing Steve Sparks with you to 
the playoffs.  How big of a factor was that decision?"

MG: "None at all.  Most of the criticism has come from Sparky himself, and
he's got every right to be mad.  We gave the ball to Thomson in Game 
Two, he did a tremendous job, and we won the game.  The only real problem
for us was who to start in Game Six.  But we won that game, too, so in 
the end, I really don't think the decision to leave Sparks behind 
affected us at all."

RF: "Game Three, you've got Brad Penny going against Roy Oswalt, who'd 
won the MVP award in both the Division Series and Championship Series.  
You feel confident about that match-up?"

MG: "I felt we could stay in the game and make something happen, yes."

RF: "You took a 3-1 lead into the seventh, Penny whiffs the first two 
batters he faces that inning, things seem to be going well.  Then, all 
of a sudden, he walks Bill Mueller and Ricky Gutierrez doubles him home 
to cut the lead to one."

MG: "I was on that dugout phone, begging for those guys to hurry up at 
that point.  Penny had only thrown 80-something pitches, but he clearly 
was about to implode.  Then Tom brought that (bleep)ing Houston out onto 
the on-deck circle and I just wanted to cry."

RF: "Two-run home run by Houston, and Allentown has now won their first 
game."

MG: "We were so close, Roy.  So close to going up three games to none.  
Only the Zoots could overcome such a deficit, and the Ridgebacks - though
they've come close - ain't the Zoots."

RF: "The next game, Arrojo gets smacked around and the series is tied, 
just like that."

MG: "Just like that.  As soon as they won the first one, I knew the 
second was on the way.  You can't keep that team down for long."

RF: "The next game, Mussina gets hammered again and Johnson steps up 
like he always seems to do.  Now you're down three games to two and facing
elimination."

MG: "From two games ahead to one away from elimination.  It's been the 
story of this BDBL post-season."

RF: "Game Six, you decide to go with a tired Penny over a rested Paul 
Wilson."

MG: "Paul has been great all year for us, but I just couldn't bring 
myself to hand him the ball in the biggest game of the year.  I'd rather 
lose that game with my best pitcher on the mound than with my worst - 
tired or not."

RF: "You've got a 2-1 lead early in that game, then Penny gives up an 
RBI single to Curt Schilling to tie the game."

MG: "I had worked hard that inning to get that match-up and it still blew
up in my face.  Like I said, sometimes there's only so much you can do as
a manager."

RF: "You ended up taking the lead once again in that game, yet again, your 
bullpen blew it."

MG: "My bullpen finds more different ways to lose games than I ever 
thought possible.  How could they be so brilliant in the Division Series 
and so lousy in the World Series?  It's really astounding."

RF: "With two outs in the ninth, your pitchers hit two batters in a row, 
bringing home the tying run and forcing extra innings."

MG: "We never make it easy on ourselves, Roy."

RF: "You used nine pitchers through the first nine innings, and were left
with Mike Magnante to face Martinez, Bonds and Ramirez in the top of the 
tenth."

MG: "Sometimes, the decisions are made for you.  I had no other choice in 
that situation."

RF: "Magnante shocks the world by retiring those three in order.  Then, 
he comes to the plate with the bases loaded and two outs in the bottom 
half of that inning and hits a grand slam home run.  Mike Magnante: your 
favorite player ever?"

MG: "Mike Magnante never has to worry about having a job in the BDBL.  
When his pitching career is over, we'll take good care of him."

RF: "Finally, we move on to Game Seven, and you take a 1-1 tie into the 
ninth inning.  Doesn't get much closer than that.  You bring in Norm 
Charlton to face Bonds, and he flies out for out number one.  That brings
Ramirez to the plate.  Now...I guess this is the most controversial 
managerial decision you've ever made, correct?"

MG: "Correct."

RF: "Why stick with Charlton in that situation, and why intentionally 
walk Ramirez, who represented the winning run of the seventh game of the 
World Series?"

MG: (Deep sigh.)  "Here we go.  I had David Weathers and Corey Bailey 
warming up in the pen.  I had already used Choate and Karsay earlier in 
the game, and Fox was unavailable.  I could've used Mike Mussina out of 
the pen, but he was tired and hasn't pitched in relief all year.  I also 
had Paul Wilson, who I normally use in long relief.  Those were my 
options at that time.  Weathers has had a knack for giving up home runs 
this year, and I didn't really want to pitch to Ramirez anyway.  If I 
brought Weathers in, I would have pitched around Ramirez, and he probably
would've ended up at first either way (or worse, second, third or home.)
With the lefty Robert Fick on deck, I thought it would be best to walk 
Ramirez and force Tom to make a move.  When he went to Burks, I went to 
Weathers. David was our best reliever this year, and he's been excep-
tionally good at getting right-handed batters out.  I had great 
confidence that he'd be able to get Burks out.  I got the match-up I 
wanted.  But like I said, I can only set them up, I can't knock them 
down."

RF: "Burks doubled home the winning run, and the side was retired in 
order in the bottom of the ninth by Mike Lincoln."

MG: "I hate that (expletive deleted.)  He killed us all series.  Berkman 
struck out for the third time in the series for the first out, then 
Wilson came to the plate and Lincoln was allowed to pitch to him.  I was 
salivating over that match-up, let me tell you.  But Wilson struck out, 
too - also his third time in the game.  That left the game up to Ray
Durham, who grounded out to end our season."

RF: "Well, you gave it a good run, Mike.  I don't think there are too 
many teams that could have played the Ridgebacks as tough as you did for 
seven games."

MG: "Well, I could name two of them off the top of my head..."

RF: "True, but you have to be happy with taking that team as far as you 
did.  The ninth inning of Game Seven - it doesn't get much closer than 
that."

MG: "Roy, a wise man once told me there's nothing to be happy about 
unless you come home with the hardware.  We didn't come home with the 
hardware, so there's no reason to be happy.  Winning a franchise-record 
112 games, knocking the despised Zoots of Stamford out of the playoffs 
for the first time ever, squeezing by the vaunted, record-breaking Los 
Altos Undertakers to get to the World Series, going into a World Series 
a 12-2 underdog and winning the first two games, then taking the series 
to the ninth inning of Game Seven - a series in which we weren't even 
supposed to be competitive.  All of those things are meaningless, Roy, 
because we didn't come home with the hardware.  It's all about the
hardware, Roy."