bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 10:28 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: I'll say it again. I've dealt more (MUCH MORE) minor league talent (that's actually performed in the majors) than any other team in this league. Who needs Einstein? Let's do a little study right now. Just us two. Farm players you've traded (since 2002): Vernon Wells Chin-Feng Chen Abraham Nunez Chad Tracy Morgan Ensberg Kaz Ishii Colby Lewis Jerome Williams Jack Cressend Dave Ross Jason Kershner Andrew Miller John Maine Endy Chavez Justin Huber Jose Castillo Andy Marte Jon Broxton Alejandro Machado Merkin Valdez Chad Gaudin Travis Blackley Brian Anderson Kody Kirkland Estee Harris Chris Mears Wil Ledezma Jayson Nix Jhonny Peralta Michael Aubrey Jason Bartlett J.D. Closser Jon Leicester Sean Marshall Jeff Bajenaru Jeff Baker Mark Teahen Brian Dopirak Farm players I've traded (since 2002): Jeff Francis Willie Harris Ryan Bukvich Tim Spooneybarger Tim Hummel Bobby Brownlie Grady Sizemore Michael Aubrey Jake Gautreau Dewon Brazelton Mike Restovich Aaron Rowand Rafael Soriano Ken Harvey Bobby Hill Brandon Claussen Jeff Larish Blake Hawksworth Jeremy Reed Justin Orenduff Casey Kotchman Kris Honel Ben Broussard Khalil Greene Lastings Milledge Justin Pope Miguel Olivo Scott Shields Justin Verlander Boof Bonser Todd Linden Aaron Heilman Danny Putnam Eddy Martinez-Esteve Chris Snelling Brett Clevlen Rich Harden Joel Hanrahan Manny Parra Joel Zumaya Kaz Matsui Jake Woods Jed Lowrie Jacoby Ellsbury Travis Buck David Aardsma Fernando Cabrera Delmon Young Kendry Morales Edwin Jackson Adam Miller Jeff Clement Alex Gordon Richie Robnett Jose Capellan Jeff Baker I can't find career VORP anywhere, so we'll use WARP1. Total WARP1 of your players: 98.6 Total WARP1 of my players: 120.8 I win. Now, I know what you're thinking: "But, Mike, you traded 55 farm guys, and I only traded 36! That's not fair!! Wah!!! Wah!!!" Settle down. Let's just take the top ten, then: You: 1. Wells: 21.1 2. Ensberg: 17.9 3. Peralta: 10.5 4. Tracy: 10.2 5. Williams: 7.6 6. Ishii: 7.2 7. Ross: 4.0 8. Castillo: 4.0 9. Kershner: 2.8 10. Bartlett: 2.7 Total: 88.0 Me: 1. Shields: 21.1 2. Rowand: 15.9 3. Harden: 13.9 4. Sizemore: 9.7 5. Broussard: 9.7 6. Greene: 7.9 7. Francis: 5.0 8. Olivo: 4.9 9. Matsui: 4.5 10. Heilman: 4.3 Total: 96.9 Again, I win. I know what you're thinking now: "But, Mike, you included Khalil Greene, and you only owned him for a brief nanosecond! Waaaah!!! Waaaah!!" Okay, then, we'll remove Greene and insert Claussen (4.2) into the top ten. That gives me 93.2. I still win. "But, Mike! Why stop at ten? I'll bet if you included 12 or 13 or 14, I'd win! You just set an arbitrary number, just to help your argument!" "...WAH!!" Top 12: 100.1 to 92.6 (w/o Greene). I win. Top 13: 103.4 to 96.6. I win. Top 14: 106.3 to 99.4. I win. No matter how you slice it, Tom, I win. And going forward, it's only going to get worse for you, once Young, Milledge, Clement, Gordon, Morales, Zumaya, Verlander, Kotchman, etc., start piling up the career numbers. You're not the Johnny Appleseed of the BDBL. You never were. You never will be. So there! bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 10:57 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Damn, I deliver a smack-down like that, and I don't get one "Attaboy?" Not one virtual high-five?? You guys all suck. Broncs Posted: 10 May 2006 11:00 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burn. There, are you happy? bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 11:07 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Greg. (Of course, it would've been cooler if I didn't have to beg for it.) Ridgebacks Posted: 10 May 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good job Mike! You're right, as usual....errr.... wait a second. Where's Chris Capuano? That's odd, I could have sworn I dealt him. bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You said farm guys only. Crapuano was a $1m, 35-man roster pitcher with 88 MLB innings under his belt when you traded him. If you want to include him, that's fine. I'd still beat you. But if you get to include him, then I get to include John Patterson, Ryan Drese, Cliff Lee, Brad Lidge, etc.. Come on, just say it, Fonzie: "I was wrrrrr...wrrrrrr....wrrrrrr..." BC_Jamboree Posted: 10 May 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What ever happened to Tim Spooneybarger? I miss hearing his name. Ridgebacks Posted: 10 May 2006 01:41 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And we head down the same path this always takes. You like to acquire prospects and then flip them. That's fine. But it's awfully hard to do an evaluation when you're taking one guy, dealing him for a second, dealing that guy for a third, etc, etc. There isn't a guy in my top 10 (and I'd venture to guess top 20) who I've turned around and traded for ANOTHER prospect. bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 02:13 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: There isn't a guy in my top 10 (and I'd venture to guess top 20) who I've turned around and traded for ANOTHER prospect. Nor is there a guy in my top 10 who I've traded for another prospect: 1. Shields: traded for Guillermo Mota 2. Rowand: traded for Steve Sparks 3. Harden: traded for Brandon Webb 4. Sizemore: traded for Steve Karsay 5. Broussard: traded for Barry Zito 6. Greene: traded for Tim Salmon 7. Francis: traded for Brad Penny 8. Olivo: traded for Tony Graffanino 9. Matsui: traded for cap space 10. Heilman: traded for cap space When you figure out what it is you're claiming, let me know. You originally claimed to have "dealt more (MUCH MORE) minor league talent (that's actually performed in the majors) than any other team in this league." I showed that's not true, and you changed your definition. But even after changing it, you're still wrong. Again, no matter how you want to define it, no matter how you want to slice or dice it, no matter how many times you want to change the rules, no matter how you want to justify it with little "yeah, but" clauses, you're still wrong. You haven't traded away more minor league talent than me. No one has. Just say you were wrong and get it over with. Come on, Fonzie. You'll feel better, trust me. Ridgebacks Posted: 10 May 2006 02:33 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ho boy. If you weren’t just making stuff up, I could let this die. But…. When dealing Broussard, you also got Greene. You then turned Greene around immediately and got Salmon. In the Francis trade, you also got Heilman. Who you then turned around and dealt for cap space. We disagree on this. Always have. But if it makes you feel better, you’re right. bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 02:40 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, I see what you're saying. So...because I traded farm players of value...and received two farm players of value...they don't count?? Okay, let's remove Greene and Heilman, just for kicks. My top ten (adding in Claussen and Soriano) adds up to 92.5. Yours adds up to 88. I still win. I'm right, Tom, because I'm right. Not because you say I'm right. Not because I "make stuff up." Not because it "makes me feel better." I'm just right. Hopefully, this brings an end to the whole "Johnny Appleseed" debate. There is no longer ANY question who has traded more farm talent in this league. ...Right?? bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 02:42 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TCapone30 wrote: I was starting to feel the pressure of HAVING to make obsurd comments just to make the board interesting. Ah...that explains a lot... TCapone30 Posted: 10 May 2006 02:48 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, I may be an ass, but do you really think I'm THAT much of an ass. (wait, don't answer that) Sometimes I just need to amuse myself (and hopefully a few others) bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 02:52 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd ask you to attend a BDBL Weekend, so I can see what you're like outside of the BDBL Forum universe, but I'm afraid of what might happen if (who am I kidding? -- when) I get too many beers in me. Geisel once tried to abandon me in the middle of the freeway during one memorable weekend. novamustangs Posted: 10 May 2006 03:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I find it interesting that you guys are arguing over who's traded AWAY more talent. Like that's something to be proud of or something? I don't get it. The only argument I could see really mattering is what you've done because you've traded away all that talent. Mike leads the league in career wins (for the time being) Tom has 2 BDBL Championships. I guess you can argue over which is more important if you need a change of topic. Otherwise, what's the big whoop? bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 03:35 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's the big whoop?? WHAT'S THE BIG WHOOP??? We're talking about the coveted title of "BDBL Johnny Appleseed" here, Tony! Doesn't that mean ANYTHING to you?? (FWIW, I'll take Tom's two trophies over my 700+ wins any day.) novamustangs Posted: 10 May 2006 03:50 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, you know Tom, if you trade Felix Hernandez to me, you'll probably top Glander in his little study there. Maybe there is value to this arguement afterall! bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 03:54 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nope, even with "Prince" Felix (5.1 WARP1), Tom would still lose. skizm Posted: 10 May 2006 06:06 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is this "contest" just for players traded that hadn't played in the majors at all when the trade was made, or for any players who were farm eligible at the time of the trade? Ridgebacks Posted: 10 May 2006 06:38 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- skizm wrote: Is this "contest" just for players traded that hadn't played in the majors at all when the trade was made, or for any players who were farm eligible at the time of the trade? I don't know, I was just counting guys who were farm eligible when traded. That's why I thought Capuano should be in there. The moral of this story is - if you're going to trade for a farm player, deal with me instead of Glander. It took him trading 20 extra guys to edge me in WARP by about 5 points. FireAnts Posted: 10 May 2006 07:34 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Actually, you know Tom, if you trade Felix Hernandez to me, you'll probably top Glander in his little study there. Maybe there is value to this arguement afterall! Tony if you would just TRADE A PROSPECT you would probably bet them both. Black Sox Posted: 10 May 2006 09:00 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FYI, Greene should not be included in this. Mike got Greene because he asked who I wanted. I can't remember what the other choice was. It was a 3 team trade. He was getting Greene as a "just to make it even" part of the trade with the intent to trade him to me for Tim Salmon. My part of the trade took a whole 3 seconds to agree to once Greene was included. Of course, its not like Greene is tearing it up. bigdaddy Posted: 10 May 2006 09:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, take Greene out. Forget I even mentioned him. I still beat Tom. Take Heilman out, too, because Tom doesn't like the fact that I traded for him. I still beat Tom. And take only the top 10, 15 or 20 players, since Tom doesn't like the fact that I traded so many farm guys. I still beat Tom. The moral of today's story is: I'm right. Tom's wrong. That's all we really need to know.