Topic: Zoots do it again.....and again......and again --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 07:30 PM Shark Just heard rumors of a blockbuster involving the Zoots...... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 07:45 PM NY Knights My guess is that he found a loophole in the system and will be announcing that he has traded Ryan Dempster again, this time for a stud starting pitcher. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 07:55 PM BDBLcommish Well, the good news is that after three years, the Zoots finally parted with a quality ballplayer (Phil Nevin, plus prospect Wascar Serrano.) The bad news is that he now has the #2 pick in the second round, which will probably be used to pick either Roberto Alomar or Gary Sheffield. Oh, and he also got Trot Nixon "thrown in", just to make it even. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 08:23 PM LawDogs Wow, I thought you said it couldn't be done! Congrats...maybe we can reopen negotiatons --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 08:25 PM BDBLcommish Just noticed something... Player A: .298/.393/.556, 949 OPS in 430 AB's Player B: .297/.377/.591, 968 OPS in 391 AB's Anyone care to guess what these two lines represent? 12-05-01 08:33 PM fmimes Geisel's baseball stats vs. Josh Booty last year? 12-05-01 08:47 PM BDBLcommish Player "A" is Trot Nixon vs. RH pitchers. Player "B" is Phil Nevin vs. RH pitchers. So in essence, the Zoots won't miss Nevin at all, at least 70-percent of the time when they face RH pitching. So now that I look at it, I guess that 2nd round pick was the "throw-in" after all. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 08:53 PM fmimes Does that mean the Butler Division has once again been decided in the offseason? I'm getting the kindling ready for the Mimes fire sale, I just need to find some matches. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-05-01 09:37 PM Mike S./Rocks I doubt Roberto Alomar is a second-rounder. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 12:42 AM Predators I never thought that I would actually be forced into defending a trade of mine but since Mike has tried to ridicule me with some warped facts, I feel I must. Mike entered this: Player A: .298/.393/.556, 949 OPS in 430 AB's Player B: .297/.377/.591, 968 OPS in 391 AB's Anyone care to guess what these two lines represent? And followed with this: Player "A" is Trot Nixon vs. RH pitchers. Player "B" is Phil Nevin vs. RH pitchers. So in essence, the Zoots won't miss Nevin at all, at least 70-percent of the time when they face RH pitching. So now that I look at it, I guess that 2nd round pick was the "throw-in" after all. Of course that's true Mike! Nixon is a left handed batter while Nevin is right handed. Let's take a look to see how they did against lefties (seeming that you managed not to put that up with your original message) shall we? Nixon .210/.309/.295, 604 OPS in 105 AB's Nevin .329/.416/.581, 997 OPS in 155 AB's Nixon will make 2.0 million next season, Nevin 2.1 million. Not much of a difference there. Plus, YOU just traded me the left handed Bobby Abreu so I didn't necessarily need another left handed right fielder. Nixon was just eating up salary! The way I see it is I just traded away away a 2.0 million dollar pinch hitter for a player whom easily would have fetched 5.0 million (that I may have not been able to comfortably afford) in the upcoming draft. The difference? I'm only paying him 2.1 million! One last note, I'm not going to make a trade with another team in hopes that it propels the other team to the World Series. I'm here to win, baby. I'm looking out for my own team's best interests. Now would Glander and all of the Glanderettes please move along. I've got a team to run here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 08:15 AM STMZoots Pick on Phoenix all you want. There is no Phil Nevin (considering stats, position played, ballpark effects and price) in this upcoming draft. Scot had the balls to make an aggressive move to improve his team. And, just in case you folks in the Eck league were wondering, be thankful that Nevin didn't go to the team he would have helped the most (Allentown) to make up an unbelievable triumverate of Bonds/Vlad/Nevin (to go along with his already good pitching that is about to become VERY good). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 08:47 AM Shark So in Mike's mind....Zoots traded Mike Lowell for the #2 $5 million pick AND Trot Nixon? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 10:25 AM BDBLcommish Scot, you protest too much. In the interest of disclaimer, please remember that any trade any of us makes is subject to close, public scrutiny (especially when trading with the Zoots.) I expect it every time I make a trade, and you all should, too. That's part of what makes this league so much fun, and nothing that is ever said here should be taken personally. If you enjoy engaging in a good, healthy baseball debate, this is the place to be. But if your skin is a little thin, you're probably better off visiting the ESPN.com page and reading the latest Peter Gammons article. Okay, disclaimer over. Now, I hardly think the facts that I presented were "warped" in any way. Facts are facts. And the fact is that in about 70-percent of the games played by both the Zoots and Predators next year, there will be literally no difference between Nevin and Nixon. But what about that other 30-percent? As you correctly point out, Nevin hit FAR better in those situations. Fair enough. But for the $100k difference between Nevin and Nixon's salaries, I'd wager that you could pick up a decent righty platoon outfielder like Danny Bautista in the draft. Now, Bautista is no Phil Nevin, but this game sure doesn't seem to know the difference (see Joe Oliver, 2001 playoffs.) (And as for this notion that it would be too damaging defensively to have a right fielder playing in left field, I can only imagine how damaging it would be to have a third baseman in left!) So in my mind, Nevin for Nixon is a wash. Which means that the #2 pick in the second round, a pick that may be used to acquire Robby Alomar, Gary Sheffield, Jamie Moyer, Brett Boone or some other star, was traded for Wascar Serrano, who makes Kip Wells look like Sandy Koufax. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 10:57 AM Shark Mike, in defense of that #2 $5 million pick. Paul will not even smell reaches such as Robby Alomar, Gary Sheffield, Jamie Moyer, Brett Boone or maybe even super-reaches Hideo Nomo or Jeff Kent. From what I am "seeing" it looks like all those guys may go in the $10 million round. Zoots will be looking at a Ryan "LH platoon" Klesko, Woody "SD park effect" Williams, Craig "I lost my speed" Biggio. Some of these guys may be "worth" the $5 million but I highly doubt he will get the cream of the crop at that spot, not the way this draft is turning out - which is making my #11 spot look even worse than it is Who knows, maybe Rafael Palmeiro will be a Zoot again. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 11:02 AM STMZoots I am surprised to hear that Shark...and in fact question whether it is all that accurate. If it is, it is an awfully short term strategy that will kill many teams' chances to compete in the future. You can't take one-year wonders like Bret Boone, Jamie Moyer et al and sign them to $10M K's. Well, you CAN technically, but it is extremely shortsighted unless you are pretty darn sure you can compete this year. I guess they would have some trade value later in the season, but you are rarely going to get back established-enough players for these guys to make it worthwhile -- this is the Rob Nen dilemma of last season. I thought it was a mighty big reach to take him in the 1st round, and I thought you were extremely lucky to get any value back for him If you want to build beyond one year, you KILL yourself taking these "reaches" as $10M picks. It makes no sense except for a very small subset of teams who were really bad last year and have a legitimate chance of really competing this coming year. Then again, just my opinion. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 11:11 AM SeaCats I can't believe I'm even bothering to comment, because I really don't have the time or inclination to research all the specifics...but off the top of my head. Nixon and Nevin in my opinion aren't a wash. I think we can all agree that it is more difficult to find a 3rd baseman with Nevin's production (which is superior to Nixon's) than it is to find a right fielder. As for the platoon argument, I guess it is true that you could pick up a platoon type guy in the draft...but with Nevin and Nixon SO close in salary, it is very likely that you would actually be spending more on the platoon, and taking up a roster spot. I don't know if Scot plans to play one of his third baseman out of position or not, and I'm sure Mike doesn't either. Scot knows best his strategy, he may move one of them, but I certainly don't think Nixon and Nevin are a wash. I think this is one of those cases, where both teams made out. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 11:40 AM BDBLcommish I agree, Tony. Nevin and Nixon are not a wash - in terms of their overall performance, and performance vs. lefties. But if you do what the Zoots have done so well over the past three years, and acquire that $100k-$500k platoon player (and righties who can clobber lefties for 100 AB's literally grow on trees), you can have the same player at the same salary. I also agree that Nevin is far more valuable than Nixon in general because he plays third base, and there are so few quality third basemen out there. He's the second- or third-best player at his position. However, Phoenix has already stated that he'll be playing in left, and Aramis Ramirez will be playing third. Now, it's possible that Nevin could be headed back out the door, and another player of similar value could be coming back in return. If that's the case, then we'll have to reevaluate this trade. But right now, I'm giving the clear edge to Stamford -- again. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 11:51 AM Shark I made that statement with good reasoning based on what I am "seeing" in e-mails. Trust me I am not "making it up". To me it is pretty obvious. Look at all the salary cap space some of these teams have. As an example, I pick #11. I have $32+ million free (and freeing up more). I won't really see a stud at my $5 million spot, solid player but not a stud and with that much money I don't plan on spreading it around in the $3 and $2 million rounds. I might as well use my $10 million pick and take someone that not only helps me compete this year but will allow me the option of trading that player away during the season if I falter or someone makes me a good offer. Add it up 1-$10m, 2-$5m, 2-$3 and so on......better yet I can really "reach" and take 2 $10m (of course trade for another $10m), 1-$5, and so on...... I would much rather reach in the $10m round than in the $5m round - at least their is better trade value in the $10m reaches if it comes to that BUT to be honest I am going for the gold this year and could really use some of those players to fill some of my holes. I have the salary cap space, might as well use it. Worse case scenerio, I suck as usual and trade them away or I compete this year, win or lose, and just drop them and have a ton of salary cap space for next year's big talent draft. I don't think it is a bad strategy at all. It is never a bad strategy to try and win every year. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 11:57 AM Mike S./Rocks ------------- NEWSFLASH ------------- Semi-truck careens into Zooterfield, destroying all of right field (including the bullpen) and 16 concession stands, one of which was the popular BEERS OF THE WORLD. ------------- Mike Glander's take: "What a lucky break for the Zoots! Not only do they get to rebuild half their stadium and turn it into luxury boxes, but now they get to redesign their RF wall around their hitters and pitchers. Plus, the city of Stamford will be giving the Zoots $35 million in interest-free loans to get this done. "Of course, this all couldn't have happened to a nicer guy than Paul. Except for me! Could you imagine the damage that would have been done if instead of a semi-truck it was a double- decker bus that crashed into Zooterfield? "Vehicle A: 35 mph x 17 tons x 13 feet high = 1 million tons of pressure on impact "Vehicle B: 40 mph x 13 tons x 20 feet high = 2.2 million tons of pressure on impact "Who wants to guess which vehicle A and B represents and which one actually DID hit Zooterfield?" -------- Paul Marazita's take: "Though I'm sure somewhere in that cold heart of his, our esteemed Commissioner feels sorrow for the Zoots' tragedy, I must say that he is all wet. It doesn't matter how big the vehicle was that destroyed our right field and BEERS OF THE WORLD concession stand, the fact is that it was destroyed. "Yes, maybe a larger vehicle would have caused center field to go under as well, but it's quite enough to be hit by a semi-truck. "You can bet those loans would have served the Zoots in other areas if it weren't for the destruction of right field, so now we'll be hard-pressed to find ways of addressing those needs. "All I can say is that if it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy I wish there were some nicer guys somewhere." ----------- Scott Zook's take: "I wish it happend to the Yankees!" ----------- The Shark's take: "Ichiro will look nice in that revamped Zoots right field. And he can tell you which Japanese beers should be included in the new BEERS OF THE WORLD!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 12:13 PM STMZoots Mike Stein...you Rock (no pun intended). That was hilarious. Thanks for the pick-me-up. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 12:16 PM STMZoots Hey Shark. Knock yourself out. Just stating my opinion here. I just question, with the big 2003 FA class coming around the corner, who is going to suck up all these $10M players mid- season and give up the cheap guys who will permit them to have cap space next year. But shoot, if all you guys with high $10M picks want to do that, I will gladly take advantage of it next season and walk away with all the great FA's. In fact, I am drooling at the prospect of it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 12:29 PM BDBLcommish Bravo, Mike!! Excellent work! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 12:46 PM STMZoots I would like to nominate Mike Stein for the Funniest Post of the Year award. I am still chuckling to myself. I love the Truck A, Truck B comparison. That was priceless. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 01:01 PM BDBLcommish That is a great idea: "Post of the Year." We just have to figure out what to give as a prize (and judging by the voting I've seen for our other awards, a new way to select the winner!) Mike's post is definitely Candidate #1. It's frightening how well we knows us all. I especially liked the part where Marazita says: "we'll be hard-pressed to find ways of addressing those needs." That is a DEAD-ON impersonation! Mike, you definitely need to attend our get-together some year. I need to meet you in person and buy you a Sammy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 01:05 PM Mike S./Rocks Well, after three years of attending grad school for my Masters in Library Science and working a couple part-time jobs in that time, I finally start a REAL full-time job in January. What's that mean? Vacation days!!!!! Woo-hoo! So now I will be able to get away and not worry about where money is coming from! It's good to be part of a league where you can kid around and everyone takes it in stride. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-06-01 01:42 PM Predators I came in to debate a trade of mine and was read a disclaimer and told to lighten up! I was never a member of the debate team or anything but does that I mean I won?